Deborah Ann Booth's Page

Hi,
I see in your profile that you mention "organisational memory and unlearning" - I agree that 'unlearning' is an interesting concept and a challenge. Do you think that it is related to that much hackneyed phrase 'thinking outside of the box', or is there perhaps more to it?

Ned

Hmm, such a full response.
Over the years, I too found that systems thinking did not answer all the questions. (I have been a systems manager!)

I'm currently working through Ralph Stacey's "Complex Responsive Processes in Organisations - learning and knowledge creation". ISBN 0415249198. He seems to be saying the same things that I have been thinking. Although I agree with him, I am not convinced with the initial argument he puts forward against systems thinking.

For your client project - I have two almost banal suggestions.

One is the 'tough love' concept. A common (USA) example being - we know it will hurt to have teeth pulled and wear a brace - but you'll have a smile everyone will love! Perhaps you can find a more pertinent example. My thinking here is that your client organisation could be failing to take potentially painful actions and missing the longer term benefits.

The second is an intervention that picks up the 'thinking outside the box' idea (which most participants see very quickly - if not a lateral thinking exercise brings it to the fore) and asks 'Is there an outer box that we can't see at the moment?' (Nested Russian dolls spring to mind!)

Re-reading your note - I wonder which is prized more: the customer experience or colleagues' feelings? Can you ask them this kind of question in a workshop?

Now back to 'unlearning'. For me this is just another form of learning, not meta learning but a recognition that what was once learned and accepted now needs to be challenged and reviewed. If we played with words Nu reflects as Un. And it is about letting go of some, perhaps strongly held, ideas in the light of new data. So I think we are thikning on the same lines here.

Regards,
Ned

Don't be alarmed by the time - This software is USA centric so I think it is 'Eastern Seaboard Time' (certainly not Ned Seabrook time - despite me being a night owl).

As for 'Friend' I'm sure there is something in the systems about letting you know if I post messages / change details etc. So that my circle of firends are kept up to date.

And as for returning the favour - no need - this is what I joined AMED for. I too now have to trawl my little library / google to unpick some of the references you've used. So learning from each other.

Let me know how 'tough love'' runs.

I look forward to meeting you at the AWG on 19 June, Deborah.

Best wishes. Bob

One of the problems with this on-line stuff is that is eats up so much time. I've been plugging away getting our AMED LinkedIn group set up and on the sidelines sorting the AGM - whilst also revamping my website to prepare it to tie in to another that I'm about to launch. So poor old Stacey is on the shelf for now.
That said, I think you've hit the general drift just right in your note. Love the 'White hat' comment, and the observation about ignorance / reticence to look too closely. What has really bugged me with Stacey is the frequency with which he repeats his mantra as if to convert an assertion to proof. And I haven't got that far with this particular volume... which is perhaps why other tasks seemed so much more appealing for now.
Perhaps we'll catch up at the AGM - are you coming along?

Hi Deborah, hello from a fellow St Albanite. Sounds like a good discussion on systems - but hard to follow on comment walls. May be worth someone pasting it into a discussion or a blog, so it's easier to read and join in.

Welcome to the O&P Subscribers' page, Deborah. Let me know if you need any help with the download.

David

Hi, Deb

Thank you for such an lengthy and energetic comment. I can see that you're spoiling for a fight! I don't have time to respond at length now, but in the spirit of blended networking, maybe we could arrange a telephone or Skype conversation? There's much to discuss.

And yes - Bramshill is the Police College. I'm glad you came to the AGM - and the the Networking Workshop which preceded it. Speak soon? Kind regards. Bob

Hello again, Deb

My clumsy attempt at humour obviously failed. Not for one moment did I feel that you were attacking me or AMED. Rather, your ire seems directed elsewhere.

Anyway, let's see if we can find a time to speak soon.

Best wishes. Bob

Last post for today, Deb

It's too late in the day for me to respond usefully to your interesting observations here (remember, I'm a(n early) morning person!). Just to be clear, I'm not advocating application of the Law of Requisite Variety - merely pondering it's implications. Let's add this to our telephone/Skype conversation.

Have a great weekend. best wishes. Bob